workday-ict-20090618: ussf-workday.2009.06.18.txt

--- Log opened Thu Jun 18 17:11:14 2009
17:11 -!- Irssi: Log file ussf-workday.2009.06.18.txt opened
17:12 #ussf: < jamiem> i just posted some potential tasks to work on here: http://ict.ussf2010.org/wiki/workday-ict-20090618
17:20 #ussf: < jamiem> brb...
17:24 #ussf: < libkuman> brb too
17:25 #ussf: < jamiem> ok... back now
17:29 #ussf: < libkuman> is back too
17:29 #ussf: < jamiem> so...
17:29 #ussf: < jamiem> have you had a look at my proposed agenda items?
17:29 #ussf: < libkuman> so all the other people in this room aren't really here?
17:30 #ussf: < jamiem> I think that's true :(
17:30 #ussf: < libkuman> yes, just looked at wiki page posted above
17:30 #ussf: < jamiem> I'm logging btw - and will post the transcript to the web.
17:30 #ussf: < libkuman> cool
17:30 #ussf: < libkuman> so i haven't followed all the email threads that closely
17:30 #ussf: < jamiem> how's your civicrm foo?
17:31 #ussf: < libkuman> i'm servicable with version 1.8
17:31 #ussf: < jamiem> ok. 
17:31 #ussf: < libkuman> with just basic relationship stuff
17:31 #ussf: < jamiem> I would suggest that we dive into the payment processor stuff 
17:31 #ussf: < jamiem> and try to minimally get the site in a position so that we can publish one link
17:31 #ussf: < jamiem> for people who want to just sign up for more info
17:32 #ussf: < jamiem> and another link that allows people to make a donation.
17:32 #ussf: < libkuman> so do we have to create a profile?
17:32 #ussf: < jamiem> the paypal issue is a bit controversial (alfredo's last email indicated that despite raising the issue on our behalf on the NPC, we are probably going to be stuck with paypal in the short term)
17:32 #ussf: < libkuman> nod, i read that one
17:33 #ussf: < libkuman> (haven't done any payment stuff with civi)
17:33 #ussf: < jamiem> profile: yes, I think that's probably the best approach.
17:33 #ussf: < jamiem> since there is only us two - I would suggest we work together.
17:33 #ussf: < jamiem> do you have a login on the site?
17:33 #ussf: < libkuman> cool, yes, and i am logged in
17:34 #ussf: < libkuman> i am looking at https://community.ussf2010.org/civicrm/admin/uf/group?reset=1
17:34 #ussf: < jamiem> catching up...
17:34 #ussf: < libkuman> i notice that the theme cuts off a good portion of the interface
17:35 #ussf: < jamiem> yeah - that's annoying. 
17:35 #ussf: < libkuman> oh, there is a slider so that i can see it all, annoying but servicable
17:36 #ussf: < jamiem> i'm trying to find the payment processor admin page...
17:36 #ussf: < libkuman> is it under CiviContribute?
17:37 #ussf: < libkuman> Manage Contributiono Pages?
17:37 #ussf: < jamiem> that's what I thought at first... 
17:37 #ussf: < jamiem> but no... under global settings:
17:37 #ussf: < jamiem> https://community.ussf2010.org/civicrm/admin/paymentProcessor?reset=1
17:37 #ussf: < libkuman> sure enough
17:37 #ussf: < jamiem> i just clicked to add one:
17:37 #ussf: < jamiem> https://community.ussf2010.org/civicrm/admin/paymentProcessor?action=add&reset=1&pp=PayPal
17:38 #ussf: < jamiem> are you experiencing slow load times?
17:38 #ussf: < libkuman> not that slow
17:38 #ussf: < jamiem> must be my local connection
17:38 #ussf: < jamiem> I don
17:38 #ussf: < jamiem> I don't know what the ussf project south paypal email is
17:39 #ussf: < jamiem> so ... what if we set it up with mayfirst paypal email so we can test.
17:39 #ussf: < jamiem> then when we find out the correct email, we can make the switch.
17:39 #ussf: < libkuman> if that works for y'all thats fine by me
17:39 #ussf: < libkuman> just don't forget ;)
17:39 #ussf: < jamiem> lol
17:39 #ussf:  * jamiem fears complicated accounting
17:40 #ussf: < jamiem> so... I'm selecting website payment standard
17:40 #ussf: < jamiem> i'm going to call it MFPL Test Gateway
17:40 #ussf: < libkuman> cool
17:41 #ussf: < jamiem> I also happen to have a paypal sandbox account - which is an option, so I'll fill that in as well
17:42 #ussf: < libkuman> do you have to explicitly set up a sandbox account for testing?
17:42 #ussf: < jamiem> you don't have to - but it does give us the option to test it without charging or crediting anything.
17:42 #ussf: < jamiem> civi has some nice tools for that.
17:42 #ussf: < jamiem>  I think we'll encounter them when we setup the donation pages.
17:42 #ussf: < libkuman> need to figure that out with lm_paypal and drupal for a project i'm doing
17:42 #ussf: < jamiem> ah
17:42 #ussf: < jamiem> ok - payment gateway saved.
17:43 #ussf: < libkuman> cool
17:43 #ussf: < jamiem> i think next is managing contribution pages:
17:43 #ussf: < jamiem> https://community.ussf2010.org/civicrm/admin/contribute?reset=1
17:43 #ussf: < jamiem> it looks like the default data includes some samples
17:44 #ussf: < jamiem> hm... makes me realize we can have separate pledge vs. contribution pages.
17:44 #ussf: < libkuman> nod
17:44 #ussf: < jamiem> Maybe we should be thinking about having three links in the email:
17:44 #ussf: < jamiem> 1. Sign up to get more info (without donation)
17:44 #ussf: < jamiem> 2. Contribute online
17:44 #ussf: < jamiem> 3. Pledge to send a check
17:44 #ussf: < libkuman> just got an error when i clicked on the "Live Page" link for "Help Support CiviCRM"
17:45 #ussf: < libkuman> i think those 3 links sound good
17:45 #ussf: < jamiem> ah right - because the sample data doesn't specify a payment processor.
17:45 #ussf: < libkuman> ah
17:45 #ussf: < jamiem> try clicking configure for that one
17:45 #ussf: < libkuman> ya, that link worked
17:45 #ussf: < jamiem> let's work through each section here
17:45 #ussf: < jamiem> title and settings...
17:45 #ussf: < libkuman> so we need two contribution pages (one pledge and one donate)
17:46 #ussf: < jamiem> right - I think we don't need the membership renewal one.
17:46 #ussf: < libkuman> nod
17:47 #ussf: < libkuman> so title and settings
17:47 #ussf: < jamiem> so... I'm going to change the Title for the donation page to be: Support the US Social Forum.
17:47 #ussf: < jamiem> sound right?
17:47 #ussf: < libkuman> yup
17:47 #ussf: < jamiem> Allow individuals to contribute and / or signup for membership on behalf of an organization?
17:47 #ussf: < libkuman> what about the "allow individuals to contribute on behalf of an organizatio
17:47 #ussf: < libkuman> ha
17:47 #ussf: < jamiem> :)
17:48 #ussf: < jamiem> let's check it and see what happens. Seems like a good idea.
17:48 #ussf: < libkuman> hmm, i guess we have to think about what profile this is attached to
17:48 #ussf: < libkuman> or how the profile is presented
17:48 #ussf: < jamiem> yeah - I"m not sure how the contribution page relates to a profile.
17:48 #ussf: < libkuman> wait, practical question, do they fill out a profile, then go to a payment page?
17:48 #ussf: < libkuman> or are they combined?
17:49 #ussf: < jamiem> I don't know. 
17:49 #ussf: < jamiem> I think we should try to finish this contribution page
17:49 #ussf: < jamiem> then try and fill it out and see if it creates a civi record without doing a profile at all.
17:49 #ussf: < jamiem> i'm thinking we'll need a contribution page no matter what, so we may as well set it up.
17:49 #ussf: < libkuman> ok, and i guess we can o back to it later if the context changes what makes sense
17:49 #ussf: < jamiem> yup
17:50 #ussf: < libkuman> ok, then click the indiv contributes fro an organization and will see what it does
17:50 #ussf: < jamiem> yeah
17:50 #ussf:  * jamiem looks for the save the date wiki page for language for intro language
17:52 #ussf: < jamiem> http://wiki.ussf2010.org/wiki/Save_the_Date_email_announcement
17:52 #ussf: < jamiem> i copied the first sentence under the donate header
17:52 #ussf: < libkuman> perfect
17:52 #ussf: < jamiem> what do you think about goal amount?
17:52 #ussf: < libkuman> lets just leave it as is for now
17:52 #ussf: < jamiem> sounds good
17:53 #ussf: < jamiem> honoree??
17:53 #ussf: < jamiem> hm-- I think unchecked for now
17:53 #ussf: < libkuman> don't think so, people might not be expected to have their donation publicly announced
17:53 #ussf: < jamiem> ok - agreed.
17:53 #ussf: < jamiem> saving...
17:54 #ussf: < libkuman> https://community.ussf2010.org/civicrm/admin/contribute?reset=1&action=update&id=1&subPage=Amount
17:54 #ussf: < libkuman> looking at the next section
17:54 #ussf: < jamiem> okee
17:54 #ussf: < jamiem> and here's the ole payment processor option
17:54 #ussf: < jamiem> updating to MFPL Test Gateway
17:55 #ussf: < libkuman> yup, (i assume we keep the "Execute real-time" checkbox checked
17:55 #ussf: < jamiem> yes.
17:55 #ussf: < jamiem> it looks like we can have one page that allows pledges as well as contributions
17:55 #ussf: < jamiem> that makes more sense that having two pages.
17:55 #ussf: < libkuman> cool, so we'll keep the "pay later option" unchecked for this one
17:55 #ussf: < libkuman> and uncheck "Pledges"
17:56 #ussf: < jamiem> I was thinking it *does* make sense to have one page instead of two
17:56 #ussf: < jamiem> that way we have one link for donating, and from that page people could choose how to donate.
17:57 #ussf: < libkuman> oh, sorry, didn't translate your "that" to a "than"
17:57 #ussf: < libkuman> so do we need a "Pay later option"  if we are going to allow Pledges?
17:57 #ussf: < jamiem> yes - i think so
17:58 #ussf: < libkuman> should we uncheck all f the "supported pledge frequencies"?
17:58 #ussf: < jamiem> i just added the address from the wiki page for mailing in checks
17:58 #ussf: < libkuman> cool
17:59 #ussf: < jamiem> ok... I'm beginning to understand the lingo which is different than I thought.
18:00 #ussf: < libkuman> you mean "pay later" versus "pledge"?
18:00 #ussf: < jamiem> yeah
18:00 #ussf: < jamiem> hm - maybe the idea is that you can pay later AND pledge
18:00 #ussf: < jamiem> or you can pay now and pledge a regular interval
18:01 #ussf: < jamiem> or pay later and via check
18:01 #ussf: < jamiem> last one I meant:
18:01 #ussf: < jamiem> or pay later and  regular interval
18:01 #ussf: < jamiem> it's a bit confusing. 
18:01 #ussf: < jamiem> I'm inclined to provide the maximum options
18:01 #ussf: < jamiem> and then if the user interface is too confusing, remove some of them
18:02 #ussf: < libkuman> i thought pledge always means pay later? or is it really mean recurring payment?
18:02 #ussf: < libkuman> ok, sounds like a good way to do this first pass
18:02 #ussf: < jamiem> yes - that was my confusion as well
18:02 #ussf: < jamiem> however, from the interface, it seems pledge specifically means an interval.
18:03 #ussf: < jamiem> "Check this box if you want to give users the option to make a Pledge (a commitment to contribute a fixed amount on a recurring basis)."
18:03 #ussf: < jamiem> that's seems like a re-definition of pledge :)
18:04 #ussf: < libkuman> and its confusing that you can uncheck all of the "pledge frequencies"
18:04 #ussf: < jamiem> yeah - that's seem wrong.
18:04 #ussf: < jamiem> i'm thinking we should leave all but daily (which seems like financial suicide)
18:05 #ussf: < libkuman> week doesnt' make that much sense either
18:05 #ussf: < jamiem> yeah - you'd have to be rich and hard core - maybe uncheck that as well?
18:05 #ussf: < jamiem> i've left month and year and the ability to choose your own frequency.
18:05 #ussf: < libkuman> maybe just month, with checkign the "allow frequency intervals" option selected
18:06 #ussf: < libkuman> problem with year is you can then say every two years, which doesn'tmake sense for this event
18:06 #ussf: < jamiem> righto... changing now...
18:06 #ussf: < libkuman> if we just pick month, then can say every 12 months
18:06 #ussf: < jamiem> yup.
18:07 #ussf: < libkuman> are we comfortable with "Send up to 2 reminders ..."
18:07 #ussf: < jamiem> i think so.
18:07 #ussf: < jamiem> i think that means one before and one afteR?
18:07 #ussf: < libkuman> k
18:08 #ussf: < libkuman> no, i read it as 2 before, one after
18:08 #ussf: < libkuman> because the last one says "additional reminders"
18:08 #ussf: < jamiem> that's confusing - I'm reading the "up to the maximum number of reminders." part and scratching my head.
18:08 #ussf: < libkuman> but i don't know, the language is a little open to interpretation
18:09 #ussf: < jamiem> yeah - I'd say let's leave the defaults
18:09 #ussf: < libkuman> sure
18:09 #ussf: < jamiem> I think we'll probably change the default donations a lot so for starters I would suggest keeping the labels and changing the amounts to 10, 50, 100, 500
18:09 #ussf: < libkuman> i say add a 1000 amount too
18:09 #ussf: < jamiem> (interesting - the default data has minimum donation of 10, but first donation amount is $1)
18:10 #ussf: < jamiem> ok - label?
18:10 #ussf: < libkuman> Angel
18:10 #ussf: < libkuman> ?
18:10 #ussf: < libkuman> superstar
18:10 #ussf: < jamiem> I like angel
18:10 #ussf: < libkuman> person of wealth
18:10 #ussf: < jamiem> ha!
18:11 #ussf: < jamiem> ok... saving...
18:11 #ussf: < libkuman> on to https://community.ussf2010.org/civicrm/admin/contribute?reset=1&action=update&id=1&subPage=Membership
18:11 #ussf: < libkuman> membership settigns
18:12 #ussf: < libkuman> i don't think we want this
18:12 #ussf: < jamiem> yes
18:12 #ussf: < jamiem> aha - and next is ye ole profiles
18:13 #ussf: < deleuzer> sorry for being late, guys got tied up.  Where are we.
18:13 #ussf: < jamiem> hey ross
18:13 #ussf: < libkuman> we are setting up a contribution page
18:13 #ussf: < jamiem> do you have access to the back log - or shall I email it?
18:13 #ussf: < jamiem> here's a quick summary:
18:14 #ussf: < libkuman> we are on the profile section of the contribution page
18:14 #ussf: < libkuman> https://community.ussf2010.org/civicrm/admin/contribute?reset=1&action=update&id=1&subPage=Custom
18:14 #ussf: < deleuzer> okay...
18:14 #ussf: < jamiem> we spent 2 minutes setting up a test gateway configured to use MFPL paypal account (both live and testing - civicrm allows you to configure a sandbox account). The idea is that we'll swith this out for the real one later)
18:14 #ussf: < jamiem> then we started editing the default contribution page included in the default data.
18:15 #ussf: < jamiem> it looks like the default civi comes with two profiles
18:15 #ussf: < jamiem> i would suggest we choose the name and address profile for now
18:16 #ussf: < libkuman> do we want to allow people to give money without filling out a profile?
18:16 #ussf: < libkuman> seems like we might lose some folks if we require extra info, but maybe that really won't happen and the data is too important
18:16 #ussf: < deleuzer> I think we should
18:17 #ussf: < libkuman> so maybe we do need two contribution pages
18:17 #ussf: < libkuman> because it seems that attachign a profile means it is required
18:17 #ussf: < jamiem> hm.
18:18 #ussf: < jamiem> What's the minimum information we want to require?
18:18 #ussf: < jamiem> I think we should minimally require a state and zip code
18:18 #ussf: < jamiem> and an email
18:18 #ussf: < jamiem> that info is criticall important for organizing.
18:19 #ussf: < deleuzer> that sounds right to me
18:19 #ussf: < jamiem> how about if we choose Name and Address as the profile...
18:19 #ussf: < jamiem> then, once we have the page setup,
18:19 #ussf: < jamiem> make that profile the "Minimum required info" profile
18:20 #ussf: < jamiem> and see if we can configure it to require the fields we want, and provide optionally the ones we'd like.
18:20 #ussf: < jamiem> did that make sense? I'm not sure how much of my thought process failed to make it to my fingers.
18:21 #ussf: < libkuman> i think i know what you are saying
18:21 #ussf: < deleuzer> Me too...I think it sounds like a good plan
18:21 #ussf: < jamiem> ok...
18:22 #ussf: < jamiem> i'm selecting for top of page.
18:22 #ussf: < libkuman> cool
18:22 #ussf: < jamiem> https://community.ussf2010.org/civicrm/admin/contribute?reset=1&action=update&id=1&subPage=ThankYou
18:24 #ussf: < jamiem> i'm putting DetroitInfo@ussf2010.org as receipt from and cc:
18:24 #ussf: < libkuman> cool
18:25 #ussf: < libkuman> any text we can pull for the thank you text
18:25 #ussf: < jamiem> thank you message: "Thank you for your support. Your contribution will help us build a successful US Social Forum."
18:25 #ussf: < libkuman> that works
18:26 #ussf: < libkuman> do we need a page footer? maybe just a link to the home page/
18:26 #ussf: < jamiem> ok... i hate wysisyg...
18:28 #ussf: < jamiem> removing bcc... removing tax id number from receipt message.
18:28 #ussf: < jamiem> saving....
18:28 #ussf: < jamiem> https://community.ussf2010.org/civicrm/admin/contribute?reset=1&action=update&id=1&subPage=Friend
18:28 #ussf: < jamiem> Tell a friend... very nice!
18:29 #ussf: < jamiem> keeping defaults.... changing one line from "us" to "US Social Forum"
18:29 #ussf:  * jamiem hopes its ok that I burn through the less controversial settings... stop me if you think there's something we should discuss.
18:30 #ussf: < libkuman> thats fine, anything i have questions on i'll bring up
18:30 #ussf: < libkuman> otherwise i'll trust your judgement and sappy text creation
18:30 #ussf: < jamiem> ;)
18:30 #ussf: < jamiem> ok... this one is one I don't fully understand: https://community.ussf2010.org/civicrm/admin/contribute?reset=1&action=update&id=1&subPage=PCP
18:31 #ussf: < libkuman> i don't think we want t hat
18:31 #ussf: < jamiem> i guess that allows someone to create a personalized version of the page.
18:31 #ussf: < deleuzer> why not?
18:31 #ussf: < jamiem> then they can forward that link rather than the generic link.
18:32 #ussf: < libkuman> well, maybe lets include it, and then remove it later if it just clutters stuff up
18:32 -!- SMO [~SMO@c-98-246-104-134.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #ussf
18:32 #ussf: < jamiem> ok. Approval required? I think perhaps yes
18:32 #ussf: < jamiem> hi SMO
18:32 #ussf: < jamiem> is that you sylvia?
18:32 #ussf: < libkuman> ya, approval required seems like the good choice
18:32 #ussf: < SMO> hi, it's sylvia...also new to irc
18:33 #ussf: < jamiem> welcome!
18:33 #ussf: < libkuman> hi!
18:33 #ussf: < SMO> thanks
18:33 #ussf: < jamiem> we're in the process of configuring a donation page
18:34 #ussf: < jamiem> are you currently logged into https://community.ussf2010.org/?
18:34 #ussf: < SMO> cool. is there a way/place where i can read what's been going on?
18:34 #ussf: < jamiem> yes - I can email you a log of our chat.
18:34 #ussf: < jamiem> however - it might be faster/easier for me to give you the 15 second summary
18:34 #ussf: < jamiem> for now at least
18:35 #ussf: < SMO> whichever's good
18:35 #ussf: < jamiem> summary: we started by configuring a payment gateway called: "MFPL Test Gateway" - this is using May first's paypal account. We've set it up just so we can test something. It's fairly easy to swap it out with the real payment gateway.
18:35 #ussf: < jamiem> The payment gateway allows us to have both live settings and paypal sandbox settings - but of which are setup.
18:36 #ussf: < jamiem> Next - we started working on creating a "Contribution page" in CiviCRM
18:36 #ussf: < jamiem> there are a million options for how to set it up.
18:36 #ussf: < jamiem> We're nearly done with it now - on the last few pages of options.
18:36 #ussf: < SMO> ok, don't let me hold you all up
18:37 #ussf: < jamiem> if you are logged in to https://community.ussf2010.org/ you can follow along on our current page here:
18:37 #ussf: < jamiem> https://community.ussf2010.org/civicrm/admin/contribute?reset=1&action=update&id=1&subPage=PCP
18:38 #ussf: < libkuman> anything else to discuss on that page? you got a notifiy email address?
18:38 #ussf: < jamiem> yes - that's the question
18:38 #ussf: < SMO> i wasn't able to get/find a password after i created a login the other day
18:41 #ussf: < jamiem> sylvia: you should be able to reset your password by going here: https://community.ussf2010.org/user/password
18:41 #ussf: < jamiem> as for confirmation email... any volunteers?
18:42 #ussf: < jamiem> i think it should probably be one of us so that if we get the email we will know what it is.
18:42 #ussf: < libkuman> sure, i'll take it on for now, if it becomes something difficult to handle i'll bring it up
18:42 #ussf: < jamiem> ok - your openflows address?
18:42 #ussf: < libkuman> ya
18:43 #ussf: < jamiem> saved... moving on...
18:43 #ussf: < libkuman> https://community.ussf2010.org/civicrm/admin/contribute?reset=1&action=update&id=1&subPage=Widget
18:43 #ussf: < libkuman> the widget?
18:43 #ussf: < jamiem> don't see why not.
18:44 #ussf: < libkuman> it does say how much money we've raised
18:44 #ussf: < deleuzer> it's a pretty cool widget
18:44 #ussf: < libkuman> if we've only raised a small amount of money would we really want the amount to be broadcasted?
18:45 #ussf: < jamiem> i can see how some people might object to that info leakage... but I think given the ussf, it's a good thing to be transparent with tha tinfo.
18:46 #ussf: < libkuman> down the road definitely, but for now, if somebody sees that the total donations are only $100, they might think its not going to get enough funding and not bother sending in their money
18:46 #ussf: < libkuman> because we only are showing onlinie donations
18:46 #ussf: < libkuman> but maybe i'm overthinking this
18:46 #ussf: < jamiem> well... you have a point - especially with the first few donors.
18:47 #ussf: < jamiem> I'll uncheck for now... we can always add it later...
18:47 #ussf: < deleuzer> We could create some fake donations
18:47 #ussf: < jamiem> lol
18:47 #ussf: < jamiem> sylvia - any luck getting your password/login email?
18:47 #ussf: < jamiem> premiums!
18:48 #ussf: < jamiem> i think I"m just going to remove the coffee mug.
18:49 #ussf: < jamiem> i think we're done. phew.
18:49 #ussf: < jamiem> here's the test drive:
18:49 #ussf: < jamiem> https://community.ussf2010.org/civicrm/contribute/transact?reset=1&action=preview&id=1
18:50 #ussf: < jamiem> it looks like only first and last name are required.
18:50 #ussf: < jamiem> maybe we should now work on that profile?
18:50 #ussf: < SMO> no luck. same as last time: no password sent to my email, also checked my spam box
18:51 #ussf: < jamiem> hm... hang on... checking log....
18:51 #ussf: < libkuman> one question, so after submittign the payment page they'll go to paypal? unless they click the "i will send by check" box?
18:51 #ussf: < jamiem> not sure...
18:52 #ussf: < jamiem> woops - looks like mendes is being blocked by yahoo. bleh.
18:52 #ussf: < jamiem> (mendes is the name of the server we're on)
18:52 #ussf: < libkuman> so if i don't click "i will send by check", i go to a confirmation page, then i get sent to PayPal sandbox
18:53 #ussf: < jamiem> i suspect the block is because we were forwarding email from paypal@ussf2007.mayfirst.org to alice's yahoo account. That included spam.
18:53 #ussf: < jamiem> this will need to be fixed before we go live!
18:53 #ussf: < jamiem> in the meantime... sylvia, I'm going to give you a temporary password.
18:54 #ussf: < libkuman> so i just tried the flow with clicking "i will send by check"
18:54 #ussf: < libkuman> it goes to a confirmation page, then on to a "thanks for your support page"
18:54 #ussf: < libkuman> that page displays the USSF address, which is good
18:54 #ussf: < libkuman> but...
18:54 #ussf: < libkuman> it still says this text "Thank you for your support. Your contribution will help us build even better tools.Please tell your friends and colleagues about CiviCRM!"
18:55 #ussf: < libkuman> ya, that text is on this page https://community.ussf2010.org/civicrm/admin/contribute?reset=1&action=update&id=1&subPage=ThankYou
18:55 #ussf: < SMO> i also just created a login acct with the MWRO email
18:55 #ussf: < SMO> pending approval
18:55 -!- josue [a6d92818@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #ussf
18:56 #ussf: < jamiem> I just sent you a private irc message with a new password.
18:56 #ussf: < josue> hey folks
18:56 #ussf: < jamiem> for the SylviaOrduno login
18:56 #ussf: < jamiem> hey josue
18:56 <SMO> i'll try it now, thanks.
18:56 #ussf: < jamiem> libkuman: woops - any idea where that's from?
18:57 #ussf: < jamiem> josue: we've setup a payment gateway with MFPL info (for now).
18:57 #ussf: < libkuman> jamie, its from the thank you page
18:57 #ussf: < jamiem> And we just created our first contribution page. This is the test version:
18:57 #ussf: < jamiem> https://community.ussf2010.org/civicrm/contribute/transact?reset=1&action=preview&id=1
18:57 #ussf: < jamiem> libkuman: ok - can you update it with something less hardwarey?
18:57 #ussf: < SMO> yeaaa i'm in! hi josue
18:57 #ussf: < jamiem> wahoo!
18:57 #ussf: < libkuman> i thought you said you changed that text for the "Thank-You Message", you listed the text above
18:57 #ussf: < libkuman> Thank you for your support. Your contribution will help us build a successful US Social Forum.
18:58 #ussf: < jamiem> i wonder if I hit submit in the wrong window.
18:58 #ussf: < jamiem> ??
18:58 #ussf: < libkuman> must have
18:58 #ussf: < libkuman> i'll update it
18:58 #ussf: < jamiem> thanks
18:58 #ussf: < libkuman> should i add a link to the home page?
18:58 #ussf: < libkuman> or just have text
18:59 #ussf: < jamiem> yeah - I suppose.
18:59 #ussf: < jamiem> a link would be good.
18:59 #ussf: < josue> internet on bus from nyc to dc blocks all ports but 80. found a web based chat. hi sylvia, mark
18:59 #ussf: < jamiem> josue: you are very resourceful!
18:59 #ussf: < jamiem> mibbit?
18:59 #ussf: < josue> yep
18:59 #ussf: < jamiem> haven't you figure out how to hack the bus router yet!?!?!
19:00 #ussf: < jamiem> :)
19:00 #ussf: < josue> how can i help?
19:00 #ussf: < libkuman> donations are tax deductible are they? the Receipt Message is currently "Your donation is tax deductible under IRS 501(c)(3) regulation. Our tax identification number is: 93-123-4567"
19:00 #ussf: < jamiem> gah - I think I changed that too. hm. 
19:00 #ussf: < libkuman> err, i meant they aren't tax deductible
19:01 #ussf: < jamiem> i believe they are tax deductible - but not that number
19:01 #ussf: < jamiem> josue: we're currently working on this contribution page:
19:01 #ussf: < jamiem> https://community.ussf2010.org/civicrm/admin/contribute?action=update&reset=1&id=1
19:01 #ussf: < josue> definitely tax deductible
19:01 #ussf: < libkuman> hi josue
19:01 #ussf: < jamiem> which is visible in testing mode here:
19:01 #ussf: < jamiem> https://community.ussf2010.org/civicrm/contribute/transact?reset=1&action=preview&id=1
19:01 #ussf: < libkuman> do you have a tax id? i assume that would be a really useful piece of information for the donater
19:02 #ussf: < jamiem> libkuman has just gone through the basic steps and is finding that some of my changes didn't take after all.
19:02 #ussf: < jamiem> I think that gets sticky. My undestanding from the last npc is that we're going through project south for next week.
19:02 #ussf: < jamiem> so... we probably should use project south's tax id number... yet that will change once the new fiscal sponsor has been confirmed.
19:02 #ussf: < libkuman> maybe i should just include an email address in the receipt message, telling them to email somebody to get tax id info?
19:03 #ussf: < libkuman> to avoid us forgetting to update that  piece of info?
19:03 #ussf: < jamiem> yeah - that sounds right.
19:03 #ussf: < libkuman> which email?
19:04 #ussf: < josue> no, people will be donating to different entities technically. now to project south and later to tides.
19:04 #ussf: < josue> i think we need to use the project south tax id now and change it when it changes
19:04 #ussf: < SMO> yes
19:04 #ussf: < libkuman> how do we document that so it doesn't get forgotton about?
19:05 #ussf: < libkuman> i guess we'll just have to do a complete review of payment pages once we switch away from project south
19:05 #ussf: < libkuman> josue: do you have the project south tax id?
19:05 #ussf: < josue> let me look and see if i do...
19:07 #ussf: < jamiem> ok... anything else you noticed that needs to be changed mark?
19:08 #ussf: < libkuman> nope, both pay now and pay later flows seem to work (all though i didn't have a login to the paypal sandbox account so i couldn't confirm it returns to the thank you page post payment
19:08 #ussf: < jamiem> ok... I can test that... working on it now.
19:08 #ussf: < libkuman> also, just so its clear, people going through this process will not have a drupal account set up for them
19:08 #ussf: < jamiem> in the meantime... here's the profile page:
19:08 #ussf: < jamiem> https://community.ussf2010.org/civicrm/admin/uf/group/field?reset=1&action=browse&gid=1
19:08 #ussf: < jamiem> i was thinking we want to add email address as required.
19:09 #ussf: < libkuman> and if tey come back later to register, we might get duplicate contacts
19:09 #ussf: < libkuman> s/tey/they
19:09 #ussf: < libkuman> don't see an easy way around that, but just wanted to make sure people were aware
19:09 #ussf: < jamiem> we can tell civicrm that email address is a unique id
19:09 #ussf: < jamiem> my understanding is that it will properly merge.
19:10 #ussf: < libkuman> we'lll probably need to test that at somepoint, once we have multiple profiles
19:10 #ussf: < libkuman> like what happens if i enter a different state in two profilies, with the same email address
19:11 #ussf: < jamiem> yah... not sure...
19:11 #ussf: < jamiem> just completed the sandbox paypal...
19:11 #ussf: < SMO> can donations also be made anonymously?
19:11 #ussf: < jamiem> got redirected to civi and have two options: tell a friend or create a personal page
19:12 #ussf: < libkuman> yup, cool
19:12 #ussf: < libkuman> (to jamie's comment)
19:12 #ussf: < libkuman> SMO: we were considering making only state, zip, and email address required for donations
19:12 #ussf: < jamiem> SMO: if they pay via credit card, they can't do it anomymously
19:13 #ussf: < jamiem> i guess, for that matter, donating by check can't be anonymous either.
19:13 #ussf: < libkuman> but there is still who gets their information, just pay pal, or pay pal and us
19:13 #ussf: < libkuman> don't know what records pay pal passes on to us
19:13 #ussf: < josue> no luck on project south tax id. i can get that tomorrow.
19:14 #ussf: < libkuman> ok, i'll just say it will be up soon
19:14 #ussf: < SMO> hmm, will donation info be public? if so, can there be an option for anonymity?
19:14 #ussf: < jamiem> no - donation info won't be public. in other words how much a person gives won't be publicly published anywhere.
19:15 #ussf: < libkuman> josue: when you get it go to this page: https://community.ussf2010.org/civicrm/admin/contribute?reset=1&action=update&id=1&subPage=ThankYou and add it to the Receipt Message" field
19:15 #ussf: < jamiem> and, in fact, whether a person gave or not won't be public either.
19:15 #ussf: < SMO> ok
19:15 #ussf:  * libkuman finishes updating the thank you page
19:15 #ussf: < jamiem> our choice could be to not collect people's email address of postal address, or give people the option of having us not collect that information. However, I think we would be shooting ourselves in the foot if we did that from an organizing perspective.
19:15 #ussf: < jamiem> libkuman: nice!
19:16 #ussf:  * libkuman wishes he had some metrics on the rate of donations when extra info is required
19:16 #ussf: < josue> libkumen: got it. will add it to there tomorrow.
19:17 #ussf: < libkuman> charles would probably be somebody to ask
19:17 #ussf: < SMO> wondering...what if "Your contribution will help us build a successful US Social Forum in Detroit 2010."...?
19:17 #ussf: < libkuman> sure
19:18 #ussf: < jamiem> I think it's a delicate balance. My inclination would be to require first name, last name, email address and zip code. Optional: postal address, city, state.
19:18 #ussf:  * libkuman changes text based on SMO's suggestion
19:18 #ussf: < jamiem> I'm trying to find a balance between not be overwhelming and getting the most critical data so we can analyze our results and organize with it.
19:19 #ussf: < SMO> if someone opts to pay by check, can we send out any reminders thru this--say via email afterwards or a couple of weeks later?
19:20 #ussf: < SMO> i like jaime's suggestion--we're not likely to do snail mail anyway, right?
19:20 #ussf: < josue> what i have mostly seen recently is that people want to know why they should give. there needs to be a list of concrete outcomes of the last forum or expected outcomes from this one. once someone has decided to give, i don't think basic contact info requested will matter
19:20 #ussf: < josue> i like jamie's suggestion too
19:21 #ussf: < jamiem> SMO: yeah, I doubt it about snail mail. It would be nice to have the city and state for organizing purposes, but zip seems to be the most critical.
19:22 #ussf: < jamiem> josue: should the list of concrete items be in the save the date/donate email, the donation page, or both?
19:22 #ussf: < josue> with zip we can get city and state
19:22 #ussf: < josue> i think the donation page
19:23 #ussf: < jamiem> josue: you're right! duh. ok, here's a question: do we need postal address at all?
19:23 #ussf: < jamiem> we could simplify the form and *only* ask for first name, last name, email address and zip code and make it all required.
19:24 #ussf: < josue> i always vote for simplify
19:24 #ussf: < jamiem> hmm... maybe we need country too.
19:25 #ussf: < jamiem> I don't expect huge donations from outside the US, but a zip code from a non-us country without knowing the country would be meaningless.
19:25 #ussf: < libkuman> ya, and probably a little insulting for the few out of country donaters
19:25 #ussf: < jamiem> i'm working from this page:
19:25 #ussf: < jamiem> https://community.ussf2010.org/civicrm/admin/uf/group/field?reset=1&action=browse&gid=1
19:25 #ussf: < SMO> don't know if this matters for this but will we be merging info from donations elsewhere? For instance checks, money orders that are sent to detroit and where it would be important to have addresses for local organizing and for people without internet access.
19:26 #ussf: < SMO> yes, on country
19:26 #ussf: < jamiem> SMO: yes - civi does allow us to record all that info. Your point makes me think that we should start writing up a series of Use Cases.
19:26 #ussf: < josue> SMO: i think the database needs those fields but not this form
19:26 #ussf: < jamiem> meaning: come up with the various scenarios that we want to be sure it all works for.
19:27 #ussf: < SMO> josue, so the database will encompass more than what's on the form?
19:27 #ussf: < jamiem> for example: one time donor over the Internet, Internet donor who wants to mail a check, donor coming in offline (via the office), etc.
19:28 #ussf: < josue> jamiem: we should add country. could we have a drop down with US at the top of the list?
19:28 #ussf: < jamiem> josue: yes I think that's the default... trying it now.
19:29 #ussf: < jamiem> SMO: yes - the database has a gazillion fields. the form we're currently working on is the one we want people to get when they click on the link in the save the date email.
19:29 #ussf: < josue> SMO: sadly for us the database will have way too many fields, way too much possible info that we will be trying to collect from people
19:29 #ussf: < SMO> cool, thanks.
19:30 #ussf: < SMO> reminds me: can we get info by state from atlanta for organizing purposes now?
19:30 #ussf: < josue> hey folks, just arrived in DC. getting off now. we'll talk soon.
19:30 #ussf: < SMO> bye!
19:31 #ussf: < jamiem> take care josue - welcome back!
19:31 #ussf: < jamiem> SMO: I'd like to check with Sarah about that - I think she did some work on the 2007 database post forum.
19:32 #ussf: < jamiem> a still linger huge project for the weekend is importing that data into civicrm so we can use civicrm to do that email blast.
19:32 #ussf: < SMO> yes!
19:33 -!- josue [a6d92818@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]
19:34 #ussf: < SMO> on this page, are we keeping the contribution names after each amount? assuming that's default info
19:34 #ussf: < SMO> https://community.ussf2010.org/civicrm/contribute/transact?reset=1&action=preview&id=1
19:35 #ussf: < deleuzer> can we set the default country to US?
19:35 #ussf: < jamiem> SMO: yeah, that's the default (although we added angel). Open to suggestions!
19:35 #ussf: < jamiem> deleuzer: ok - check it out now:
19:35 #ussf: < jamiem> https://community.ussf2010.org/civicrm/contribute/transact?reset=1&action=preview&id=1
19:36 #ussf: < jamiem> zip code is required, but country is optional (and US is first choice)
19:36 #ussf: < jamiem> i figure people who leave country blank we can assume US
19:36 #ussf: < deleuzer> there should be a way to default the selection...No?
19:37 #ussf: < jamiem> huh... yeah, i would imagine... checking here: https://community.ussf2010.org/civicrm/admin/uf/group/field?reset=1&action=update&id=6&gid=1
19:38 #ussf: < jamiem> blah. I don't see a default value option
19:38 #ussf: < deleuzer> me neither
19:38 #ussf: < SMO> i tend not to like naming donation amounts--feels hierarchical. i guess we can see how it goes...
19:38 #ussf: < jamiem> i'm unchecking "make this contribution page active" - because I'm afraid someone might stumble upon it.
19:39 #ussf: < jamiem> SMO: I think we could leave the labels blank.
19:39 #ussf: < jamiem> SMO: if you want to expirment, you can change it here:
19:39 #ussf: < jamiem> https://community.ussf2010.org/civicrm/admin/contribute?reset=1&action=update&id=1&subPage=Amount
19:40 #ussf: < jamiem> SMO: i'm feeling you on the donation labels. I think either blank or we should turn the concept on it's head and come up with labels that don't denote higher donors as being ore special.
19:41 #ussf: < jamiem> i mean "more special" not "or special"
19:41 #ussf: < libkuman> i say we just blank them out
19:41 #ussf: < SMO> me too, will do that now
19:42 #ussf: < jamiem> ack - I just realized by making the contribution page inactive, you can no longer hit the test page. hm.
19:42 #ussf: < libkuman> well if we just leave it in sandbox mode, nobody will be able to make a payment
19:43 #ussf: < SMO> right, my saved page came up inactive
19:44 #ussf: < jamiem> libkuman: rather than having a live/sandbox mode - instead we have a live page and a sandbox page - both are active when the contribution page is active, both seem to be inactive when it's set to inactive.
19:45 #ussf: < libkuman> ah, thats frustrating
19:45 #ussf: < libkuman> seems like their should be a only available to admins setting
19:45 #ussf: < jamiem> i just made it active again... sylvia - your blanked out labels are now working :)
19:45 #ussf: < jamiem> yeah - that's what I expected.
19:45 #ussf: < jamiem> maybe there's a civi permissions somewhere that we don't have set properly.
19:47 #ussf: < libkuman> don't see any
19:48 #ussf: < jamiem> hm.
19:49 #ussf: < jamiem> it's almost 8 - maybe we should assess where we are and what we still need to do for monday?
19:50 #ussf: < libkuman> ya, i need to sign off soon
19:50 #ussf:  * jamiem stomach is grumbling.
19:50 #ussf: < deleuzer> me too...but wish I'd been more help today
19:50 #ussf: < jamiem> I think, in somewhat order of priority, we need to:
19:50 #ussf: < jamiem>  * Import records from 2007 database
19:51 #ussf: < jamiem>  * Fully test all aspects of the donation system
19:51 #ussf: < jamiem>  * Tweak the theme so it works better (fluid stuff ross mention, navigation system, etc.)
19:52 #ussf: < jamiem> I can post to the list about the data import - I think we might be able to tap Sarah and/or josue - I think they've worked on that data since the last forum.
19:52 #ussf: < libkuman> do we still need to add another profile?
19:52 #ussf: < libkuman> our original plan was to have one for donations and one for keep me in the loop
19:53 #ussf: < libkuman> if i remember correctly
19:53 #ussf: < SMO> yes
19:53 #ussf: < jamiem> yes - you are right.
19:53 #ussf: < jamiem> And - it looks like the profile we are using is automatically tied to the drupal login form.
19:53 #ussf: < jamiem> if you log out of the site and then go here:
19:53 #ussf: < jamiem> https://community.ussf2010.org/user/register
19:54 #ussf: < jamiem> You can register for a drupal account and get the default profile stuff.
19:55 #ussf: < libkuman> ya, except i would say drupal account creation uses civi profiles, not the profile is tied to drupal creation, i.e. drupal creation uses a civi profile, civi profiles by them selves do not create drupal accounts
19:55 #ussf: < libkuman> sorry i'm stating the obvious, i just always want to make explicit the data flow between the two systems
19:55 #ussf: < SMO> and can we add keep me in the loop text somewhere?
19:56 #ussf: < jamiem> libkuman: I just found a setting, in advanced settings for the profile, that allows us to have drupal user creation be optional or required.
19:56 #ussf: < jamiem> https://community.ussf2010.org/civicrm/admin/uf/group?action=update&id=1&context=group
19:57 #ussf: < jamiem> SMO: yeah - that's the problem with using the default drupal user registration.
19:57 #ussf: < jamiem> maybe we should:
19:58 #ussf: < jamiem> * make the current profile we're working on require a drupal account creation (that way we're sure all people who fill out the form have both a civi account and a drupal account)
19:58 #ussf: < jamiem> * create a new profile, same fields, also requires a drupal user account creation, and includes more friendly text at the top for staying in the loop.
19:59 #ussf: < libkuman> as long as there are some profiles that don't reqire drupal user account creation, because wouldnt that require a user name for each civi contact, which i think is explicitly not necessary in some cases
19:59 #ussf: < jamiem> profiles have to be explicitly setup as individual or organization.
20:00 #ussf: < jamiem> so - perhaps we'll need to add an organization profile without the drupal user account creation.
20:01 #ussf: < libkuman> ok, so we are at 8 oclock, do we need to figure this out now, or have it be an agenda item for next meeting, or agenda item to be discussed via email?
20:02 #ussf: < libkuman> because i have to step away from the computer
20:03 #ussf: < jamiem> ok. I need to get a bite to eat. I'd be down for making a few more tweaks to the profile once I get back if that's ok with folks.
20:03 #ussf: < jamiem> and then reporting back the outstanding big issues to the list.
20:04 #ussf: < libkuman> sounds good, just make sure you document your decisions on profile setup
20:04 #ussf: < libkuman> thanks!
20:04 #ussf: < SMO> ok, gonna go too...thanks for all your good work everyone!
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20:04 #ussf: < jamiem> ok - will do.
20:05 #ussf: < jamiem> thanks everyone!
20:07 #ussf: < libkuman> see you all later! thanks for being awesome
20:07 -!- libkuman [~libkuman@ool-45706d3e.dyn.optonline.net] has left #ussf []
20:30 #ussf: < jamiem> deleuzer: not sure if you are still here or not... I'm going to continue documenting in this channel so we have a record of my additional changes.
20:31 #ussf: < deleuzer> yeah, i'm still here...
20:32 #ussf: < jamiem> :). I'm going to change the profile we've been using in the following way:
20:32 #ussf: < jamiem> * Rename it: Minimal Profile for Donations
20:32 #ussf: < jamiem> * drupal account creation required
20:33 #ussf: < jamiem> * update contact on duplicate match
20:35 #ussf: < jamiem> * uncheck user registration (I think we should have a dedicate profile for the user registration)
20:35 #ussf: < jamiem> I'm making a second profile for the "stay in touch" which is a duplicate, except it has a header message about staying in touch
20:38 #ussf: < jamiem> i'm adding captcha on this one.
20:39 #ussf: < jamiem> bleh... have to get recaptcha api key...
20:44 #ussf: < jamiem> just configured our recaptcha key.
20:49 #ussf: < jamiem> creating the new profile as "stand alone" - which means that civi generates html that needs to be pasted into a form. This irks me. I would prefer if civi could provide a page that displays the form rather than forcing you to create a standalone page.
20:52 #ussf: < jamiem> i'm creating a drupal input filter that will allow the tags used in the form.
20:58 #ussf: < jamiem> i can't seem to get the require drupal creation to work with the stand alone form.
20:59 #ussf: < jamiem> i'm changing direction and instead making the Stay in touch profile be linked to the drupal user account creatio
21:06 #ussf: < jamiem> i'm re-adding our original profile as the drupal user registration profile and modifying the drupal settings so that the user registration "guidelines" provide the friendly message about staying in touch.
21:06 #ussf: < jamiem> And adding recaptcha.
21:11 #ussf: < jamiem> ok... I think I've had it for today... I'm going to write up some notes, fill in some tickets, email the list and head home...